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rebounding
September 2009 
Full Transcript From Ken Wilber Interview Posted!
Jordan
An Enlightenment Interview with
Ken Wilber
(and a brand new Jordan Gruber commentary, as of December 10, 2007,
with some thoughts on the circumstances and impacts of this pivotal interview)
What follows it the full written transcript from Speaking of Everything (2001), a double-CD audio interview that Jordan Gruber conducted with Ken Wilber, at Ken's home, in April of 2001, not so very long ago. Note that Speaking of Everything has been available at Amazon.Com, but soon will be out of print. A few, rare, copies signed by Ken Wilber himself are still for sale for $50 each; if you're interested, send me a shout at jordan@enlightenment.com.
Ironically, when this double-CD set first came out as a finished product during the end of 1982, it was extremely popular, breaking Amazon.Com's top ten for the "Music" category. Why was it so popular? Well, it was nicely done, and included some Alex Grey artwork and a great design by our friend Brooks Cole of Holocosmos, but the real and obvious reason why this thing was flying off our shelves was the fact that at that point there had never before been a "live" interview with Ken Wilber available, that is, one where you could hear his actual voice in a non-scripted context.
As I've written elsewhere, getting Ken to agree to let me interview him was easy. But getting there physically, was very logistically difficult. And on top of the difficult of the trip, getting the actual audio recording device to function correctly was another huge real-time hurdle. But all of that pales in comparison to Ken's reluctance to have the interview released publicly.
To the extent that Enlightenment.Com is still "made," that was a make-or-break moment for us. I essentially importuned Ken, both in person and later by email, to let him let me make a product out of the recording. In fact, I sent him a copy of the interview so that he could see that, despite his misgivings, he had a decent-sounding voice and that he didn't come off as anything but a very caring, very decent, and enormously intelligent and likeable fellow.
Well, finally he agreed, we made the product, and it gave many thousands of people their very first opportunity ever to hear an actual recording of this brilliantly informative and entertaining creative genius. (And even though I now join in the ranks of those who are critical of Ken on multiple fronts, there's still absolutely no doubt whatsoever that he has a stunning mind. As I say in the interview, with complete admiration, hero worship, and perhaps some naivete:
"You know that people ride on your words. They eagerly read the latest Ken interview, and they go, "Ah hah," and it changes them. It's a burden. It's an office. It's a…you're Ken Wilber! I know that seems weird for me to say that to you but, you know, hey, you're actually Ken Wilber!")
So, essentially, my partners and I were able to bring the world more of Ken Wilber then it had ever had before. Whether this was just an inevitable development for Ken of played a crucial turning point, it was very shortly after this first-ever-voice-of-Ken-availability that many recordings of Ken, including video (something I asked for but was turned down on numerous occasions), began to appear. Today, Ken is available in great depth, from multiple sources, including his own Integral Institute and Tami Simon's wonderful Sounds True.
So, consider this interview as just a bit of frozen memetic history, or consider it as containing, in potential form, an initial and integral representation of some of the dynamics, writ large, that now make Ken seem quite a bit more problemmatic these days. In any case, enjoy the interview in its written form, and if you'd like to hear the original recording, why not go ahead and get a copy for yourself?
best to you,
Jordan Gruber
Access: Public
yes! i do remember this CD. i'm probably one of the first few people who bought it :)
thanks again for doing that interview. and thanks for posting the transcript. very useful reference for the evolution of Wilber and his integral philosophy.
~C
Thanks, ~C4. I think the “best stuff” in the interview relates to why it is that people hang on Ken's stuff, transference, etc., because I think those dynamics are now being played out with respect to many of Ken's ups and downs, especially vis-a-vis his critics, that have occurred in the last few years.
Great to stumble across this, Jordan, thank you.
I have had the pleasure of meeting Ken and seeing him 'in action' at the David Deida 3D Teacher Training some years ago. I was surprised by how he was - totally natural, funny, interesting and interested, charming, vulnerable, and yes, very very bright. There was a moment when the women at the workshop decided they'd rather talk with him as a person rather than hear theoretical discussion. With some energy they pursuaded him to remove his shirt, which he did with a wry smile.. and then he said, “where am I going to clip the mike?” He looked down and made the obvious choice: his nipple….
So. That's my experience, and of course it endeared me to him hugely. I have some misgivings about some of what happens around and with any powerful teacher in these arenas, but regardless, I have a big soft spot for KW.
Love,
Sandra
It's hard not to love Ken in person. As you say, he is funny, natural, and endearing.
It's just that when you look at the list of stuff that Ken himself early on told us to watch out for in teachers, and then compare it to some of what has gone on, things seem, to say the least, problemmatic.
And I think most people tend to miss the bigger picture and opening that Ken has given us. It's most definitely not about the details of “integral theory” – that's a non-starter, for many reasons. Rather, it's about the fact that the internal universe – Ken's interior quadarants – are equally if not more real than what is physical and measurable, and for hundreds of years science has not taken these inner realms seriously.
In any case, I'm glad you stumbled across this material, Sandra, and if you have the opportunity to read through it, I hope you find it stimulating.
best,
Jordan